6 February 2012 7:21PMResponse to LondonBloke, 6 February 2012 6:29PM
i agree and said as much on page 10 in two rather long tomes-the second one dealing with this.
i don’t understand why people are charging Birgitte with “wanting power at all costs” and has necessarily becme “harder of face and cynical etc” for doing so? She is not grasping for power:she already has it. Birgitte is simply trying to hold onto her position as PM in a tricky coalition that is constantly shifting and changing in affiliations and support and upon which she relies for her majority.
i agree about Bengt too, he kept over-ruling her (he also told her to keep her nose out of his job & decision to spend no small sum of several hundred billion odd kroner for the jets)and hence couldn’t be both friend /advisor as well as her Minister. To keep him on in political terms when his place became untenable (by his own actions) would have smack of nepotism or some such.(friendism?:) Birgitte didn’t give into similar pleas from the two women Ministers she fired who were also friends/old mentees.
i do wonder whether such terms would have been used about a similarly placed male PM? since they almost seem to imply that Birgitte has now become ugly in her now so called “hard faced” bid for power? does this mean that power, or even aspiring to it, never mind just trying to hold onto it, is not becoming in a woman?…
8 February 2012 1:34AMResponse to pdboxer, 7 February 2012 5:51PM
Hiya @pdboxer,yes, i agree, i hadn’t thought of it like that, as you say:
In fairness I think some politicians are thought of as becoming harder and more cynical, not necessarily corrupted, and others are seen as being corrupted. And I do think that some politicians are seen as “grasping for power” meaning doing so at all costs in lieu of principle. Though I wouldn’t say so of Obama. I can certainly think of a few British politicians who I believe would say anything to get/stay in power, even if its not what they believe. I think if you look even over the past 10 years in UK parties, through leaders and leadership contenders, its not hard to find a few examples of this.
not being much of a politico myself-(why is it only interesting when it’s another county’s politics?! i dunno-well for me anyway:) i’m not sure i understand why someone would do anything for power as such:eg. what does it get them?
yes power, but what power do they really have if they only wanted power for themselves, doesn’t that mean they would only want to have power to do the things they want to do? (this is sounding kind of obvious now!)
However what can they really do with it? are not they always hampered by all the balances and checks around them? and other politicians as well? unless they are a Dictator i suppose..
i guess they have power to swing deals like we saw and so make lots of money (probably) but is this really so easy i wonder? i mean what does power really get you?
I agree certainly on Birgitte, I think she is one of those who passionately wants to change things for the better in her view.
i agree, and although i consider myself a bit of a cynic about politics (plus ca change): i found myself believing in her speeches and even feeling moved! i see what you are saying about the distinction between grasping for power and becoming corrupted by losing or ejecting your principles to get it as being different than just becoming harder and more cynical along the way. i think my problem is perhaps with the words harder and more cynical as necessarily being seen as bad! surely they could equally be the words tougher and more realistic for ex?:)
I agree, except that I think she knew she was a big figure, a party leader, but I don’t think she expected to be PM – only the integrity collapse of laugeson and hesselboe made this possible. Kind of like if Nigel Farage or Nick Clegg found themselves in power 🙂
i see what you are saying, yes, she had to grow into it, myself i really enjoyed that side of it. She hadn’t expected that probably in her wildest dreams -i like your analogy of Clegg or Nigel Farrage!:) we watched her almost as a novice, reaching out into a ready made role and getting stronger and stronger . She had to make several leaps of faith if you will it took some guts i felt. All hail Birgitte!:)
Yes, i agree about Caroline Lucas, she is really cool and gives one hope. Cool, calm and collected, could she really change the world?..would she get necessarily harder?
probably, she would need to, to get a thicker hide surely, to ward off the night of the long knives..:)
Philip was appalling and his behaviour such an incredible departure from the secure, balanced individual we met at the start.
i so agree:T’was all a bit odd that really, wasn’t it? it was indeed so speedy a transition as to almost be turning into werewolf time.:)
Oh dear, i hear that you haven’t seen Forbrydelsen I & II! sacre bleau you have indeed missed a treat-FBI >FBII the Killing Remake is dire. Not seen West Wing.
i never watch things twice and i watched FBI twice and only discovered more layers, like an infinite and eternal onion:) ok it has plenteous red herrings. It is seriously intense particularly in it’s portrayal of grief.
Sorry, but i wouldn’t re-watch Borgen. i dunno if anyone else has experienced this but i am obviously pavlovian tuned to plinky plonk music now which they kept playing in Borgen these last two episodes. i kept twitching (metaphorically you understand) in FBI type readiness..
i canna say more…
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